Stoned to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath

Numbers 15:32-36 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

PERSONAL COMMENTARY

I’ve received several emails and posts have been made on forums and on this blog accusing me of mocking God and the Bible. I find these accusations interesting because I believe it is the Scripture itself that’s making a mockery of God.

I have to admit that reading the above verses truly made me sad.


49 responses to “Stoned to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath

  • borked

    I have some of the same criticisms.

  • Anonymous

    Is man god’s greatest blunder, or is god man’s greatest blunder?

    -nitezsche

  • Anonymous

    Nietzsche kicks ass.

  • heardofgod

    It is because people think that God sent his Son so that he could overlook sin altogether. Instead, He sent his Son to forgive the sin of those who are willing to be obedient to every command of God.

    You HAVE posted a lot of scripture that is seemingly mocking. If my perception is wrong, please excuse me. However, I would like to know what it is that you are trying to accomplish, because even though your Jan 1st mission statement seems innocent and some other posts seem humorous, it seems the main idea is to point out the things that you don’t think people have seen so as to change their mind about the kind of God they serve, and to somewhat mock the traditional view of God being a loving God. I think it’s somewhat good to highlight these scriptures for those who don’t get that God is Holy, so that they question in their own mind what it is they should be getting from the Bible. But to say that the Bible is making a mockery of God seems like a cop out of admitting that you don’t get it either. If you thought God was real, you would not question his word, but would examine your ways with honesty and be transformed. I don’t think you would try and convince yourself that God was real, but his word is not, because that would make yourself a mockery. So it is probably true that you were attempting to mock God’s word, but if you understood Scripture through the Holy Spirit you would know that the true people of God cannot hardly be led astray by this method because they have already come to terms with God’s Holiness and have accepted it. The only ones you manage to draw into the misunderstanding of scripture are those who came into their so called “Christianity” with their self in mind, who just wanted to feel saved and have the emotional high, and good friends, and good potlucks, or maybe just a place. They will be swept away when they read the verses, like the ones you have quoted, and it makes them sad, as well. They’ll walk away feeling justified because who wants to believe in that kind of “meany” god. The Scriptures don’t make a mockery of God. They make a mockery of those people, and all because they never understood faith to began with. I truly do love ya man, but I don’t know if you really have good intentions. I’d sure like to hear otherwise.

    Anyway, these verses don’t contradict God in the least bit. The man knew the commands. He deliberately disobeyed God. God is utterly consistent. The wages of sin IS death. Always and forever and will never change. God desires obedience and not sacrifice. That will never change. From the beginning all we had to do is obey God and that is the very thing that those who only call themselves Christians are still trying to get around, even using the message of the Cross to do it. God said “he must die”. However God laid the iniquity of us all on Christ and he had to die as well. Why is it that we think, to die is so drastic? To obey is more drastic than that. God show’s us this by the fact that Christ, in obeying God, died. What is your life but only a vessel. Jesus died for those, or took the punishment for those, willing to be obedient to God and count their life as nothing in the face of obedience. Put on Christ friend. Start with one thing and watch our savior work in the rest of the others. It’s called the narrow path because obedience has little play between its banks. Few find it because they weren’t even looking for it.

    With love,

    Sam

    • bukayo

      the simple goal is to prove that the Bible CANNOT be the word of God and it is possible and logical to bypass the Bible in your search for the TRUE nature of God

      • wyer

        You actually can bypass the Bible in a search for the true nature of God. Now I will be called a heretic for saying that but I can prove it very, very easily but you still have to be willing to take steps. The term God is a manufactured term now consider religious or spiritual. So here is a brief view of what’s most real. This planet was developed experimentally by an advanced above human race as a way to provide a testing ground they could provide to those who wanted to join their ranks. Now where some confusion comes in is thinking that when I say Above Human I am speaking about Space Aliens but the truth is that those who are to us space aliens, simply because they have some technologies humans may not yet have and some of which have originated in a different star system, makes them above human, but I am speaking evolutionarily in the same way a human is above an animal and animal above a plant and plant above minerals as all are forms of matter infused with energy that causes cellular and particle function/reaction.

        Those called Ti and Do said that one could make application to this Above Human evolutionary step, which they taught was a Human Individual Metamorphosis. In other words it was very similar to a catepillar having to cease catepillar ways and become isolated with all it’s focus on their crysalis – where the changes take place and provides a new series of programs that when implemented take charge over one’s physical body as a human takes charge of a computer.

        However, this metamorphosis can not be accomplished by yourself – nothing in reality can be. For instance you can think you can do things for yourself and of course you can but it took lots of help to get you to that point and it takes even more to become a member of the Evolutionary Level Above Human.

        Some of the bodies found during some of the crashes in the late 40’s and early 50’s had a physical structure that humans thought meant they had to be robots as they had no organ systems humans have.

        Ti and Do realized that the Next Evolutionary Level were not mammalian and that they had no reproductive organs nor digestive organs because their physical bodies were more composed of a plant like material that was generated by a type of photosynthesis. Some of the reports stated that these “vehicles” (Ti and Do called bodies) were spongy, when someone punched one.

        The metamorphic process was actually a way to fill an implanted container that is invisible to humans and can not be felt, but has a structure none the less, sort of the way a remote cell phone or computer signal or radio signal has structure as it flys around in space. Frequencies can be organized, which is how they can be formulated, transmitted and received.

        A Next Level crew who operate frequency based vehicles actually implant those human plants with one of these containers which has a set of programs with it that enables interface to receive more programs, that is if you establish a link/graft/bond with an existing member of the Next Level who has the assigned task of taking a classroom of students through their individual metamorphosis.

        The prime requisite to acquire the programs that upon receipt actually increases one’s energy input while not exhausting it, thus is stored and build into a more and more powerful battery electromagnetically speaking that is.

        To be born into one of these new photosynthetic vehicles that are grown on vines in laboratories on a space craft or inside what humans see as a planet or asteroid etc. one needs to increase their power signature sufficiently to power one of these new vehicles, otherwise if it were permitted one would not be able to actually manipulate the new vehicle.

        Now building up one’s power supply is only possible if you’ve received one of these implanted technologies.

        However, meanwhile, those that flunked out of just such a program in times past, who at one time received such an implant and built up their power supply to some degree, but not enough to power a new non-mammalian vehicle do have a capasity to give their power to humans who don’t have such an implan but who are genetically primed to be a recipient of one such implant. Then these humans tend to excell in whatever they do but they still die, as even those with implants that are working under the Next Level member do, but there is a big difference.

        If one has been looking to and bonding with a member from the Next Level then when that physical vehicle is dropped or exited or dies from seemingly natural causes (which really aren’t natural because the entire garden/experiment was allowed to become a prision and testing ground for those who dropped out and began to work actively against those they dropped away from), the Next Level workers who are watching all along and assisting with that individuals metamorphosis take that implant that is the result of all the experiences and activities and behaviors one embraced while under the tootering of the Older Member who snatched a human body to perform the task in the first place on Earth with the human subjects, make a point to save that new born frequency based body/implant (not like space alien or human implants) so it doesn’t simply merge with the electromagnetic field of the planet, to the degree it learned to roam within, but will eventually be recycled – have it’s individual energy/program signature (really just like software operating against the broader and wider frequency field of the planet) moved into a less individualistic energy form.

        I know this sounds like sci-fi, but the truth is that all the sci-fi came from the range of possabilities provided earth humans. Just like the soil is prepared by the Next Level, so is the atmosphere. All matter is animated by energy from the sun, named Sol but with polarity of the Earth’s internal “sun” and adjusted by the moon and the other planets in the system.

        The metamorphosis consists of consciously opening up one’s link to the information/energy from the assigned and physically present Older Member who is like a midwife and proving to them we are embrassing the program to where we are proving ourselves to be trustworthy to be assigned to one of their crews to help manage everything we consider to be our human reality on Earth.

        Thus if we try to bypass this assigned individual or think we don’t need anyone’s help, then we have actually cut ourselves off from further filling of our balloon type implant.

        That indivdiual could tell us to stand on our heads and count the blades of grass and if we did it to the best of our ability and did so consistantly with whatever they asked of us, then we would be actually bonding with their mind and would become part of their family unit. However, they don’t give us nutty things to do, though to those who can’t fathom any of this, it’s all nutty, which is indicative of not having any of their Mind left in us.

        And in case anyone reading this thinks this is elitest talk, they are right and wrong. The Older Members certainly are elite and the students that seek to become a link for their mind thereby also become elite but they don’t actually think like that at all as each member of the Next Level compares themselves with the Older Member that midwifed them into memberhip in their family, in which case they know they don’t compare in stature so don’t think of themselves as elite. They are above ego. If they held on to their ego and the competitiveness that goes with it, they would never complete their metamorphosis.

        meanwhile all humans who die as well as animals when their physcal body ceases operation, whatever program they’d developed by their choices during life is still existant against the earth’s electromagnetic field and they seek a host for their program in the living humans that most seek to run the programs they offer, which bolsters those humans to seem like they are special or have more talent, etc.

        So you can bypass the Bible, which is simply a composite

  • Anonymous

    Right…but the fact is god is an asshole for killing a guy for working on the sabbath day.

  • Hank Sinclair

    Why would I even think about worshipping your God when he murdered millions of innocent babies among 30 million humans in the great flood. He is solely responsible for so many murders that I simply cannot digest the fact that people still continue to worship Him. In the bible He advocates genocide, murder, slavery, rape, human sacrifice etc.

  • Hank Sinclair

    1…Exodus 35:2. Six days shall work be done , but on the seventh day, there shall be to you an holy day , a Sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

    1a..Numbers 15:32-6. A man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath so the Lord told Moses that he must die and be stoned to death outside the camp. So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death as the Lord commanded Moses.

    Author’s note: Collecting a little firewood for the kid’s fire at summer camp, doing some gardening, going shopping, policemen doing their duty, fire fighters putting out fires, nurses tending their patients, kids working at McDonald’s even preachers giving their sermons are all guilty of working on the sabbath and should be put down. There are no exceptions to this commandment in the Bible. How many Christians today would be executed for disobeying this commandment?

  • joy

    You poor, stupid people.

    God is the origin of all power in the universe and we can’t fathom His infinite wisdom. We’re nothing more than vapor here on earth, and we quickly return to His presence. Life is a brief chance granted for us to learn about Him and submit to His will.

    If I were you I’d think twice before wasting your life judging and attacking the Almighty. Talk about futility.

  • jill s.

    Do people actually believe that? Ridiculous. It’s no different than worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

  • joel

    As a Christian I found Numbers 15 to be a real test.
    I guess it would have been easy for people in the past to manipulate this controversial verse right out of the bible. But there it still stands. That’s interesting in of itself.

    It disturbs me, but not enought to make me dismiss what I KNOW to be true. Numbers was part of my reading this week and when I got to those verses, I felt the sense of “oh know” as I read them. I argued with God, and went through a lot of the same responses I’ve read from the mockers. Then I prayed for understanding if I could have it, and if not peace. The next morning I get in the car, and start a sermon series I’ve been listening to on Matthew. The teacher make a profound statment that really answered it for me. Out that is a series of 50 sermons it would be cued right to the spot that dealt with my doubts of the scripture I had just read the night before. Probably wouldn’t mean a thing to the godless. It certainly didn’t just make me wipe my brow and say “that’s better.” It is still harsh and tough, but I also realize that we are dealing with a God that is not like us. Not at all. His ways are infinately higher than our ways. How much poison does it take to contaminate a glass of water?? How much sin does it take to condemn a man in the eyes of an eternal, Holy, mighty, perfect, and pure creator?

    Many see God’s as mean, because they see him from their human perspective. God is just and no matter how confusing or hard it is for us, His ways are far and above our ways. The God who destroyed the world in a flood also had the forsight to see what evil was ahead. He was able to see the heart of the wood gatherer. Just like the USA saw the evil that was ahead in Japan, and thus dropped two H-bombs. An act that out of context would seem purely evil, but with the proper perspective can be wholly justified, even holy.

    Those who talk about people (gentiles) violating the Sabbath today are ignorant of any hermanuetical understanding.

    The depth of the bible is rarely understood by cherry picking a verse here or a verse their, and then saying “see I told you so.”

  • Sawyer

    It’s hard to know the full circumstances here but harsh penalties for disobedience were given by the writings ascribed to Moses. It’s possible we havn’t received the whole story here, in fact likley and believe it or not it’s possible Moses made a mistake. It’s also possible that God knew more about this. Don’t forget the body is a precious temple and we should treat it that way to include how we treat others BUT it is expendible in God’s eyes. After all we are all going to die. So it’s a tool used to develop our mind towards membership in God’s kingdom, if we choose. The Children of Israel were given a choice by God through Moses to abide by their laws or leave the encampment. However, it is also possible that certain laws were on the books to disuade people from treating them casual but especially in those days, humans were first being tended by God through his prophets to become less animalistic, think before acting – recognize the ramifications to their immedieate desires for gratification and to be willing to cooperate and not allow their physical body to be so demanding, thus exercise mind over matter so to speak. These were all introductory lessons. God knew that he could take that soul that was killed if that is in fact what happened and “save” it for a future opportunity but that it could be a lesson on the severity of maturing to a recognition of God’s reality, not to take it so casually. Simultaneously it was a test for Moses and Aaron. Just because one is a prophet of God doesn’t mean they automatically know the right thing to do in all circumstances and doesn’t mean they can’t be fooled by the lower forces that operate in the discarnate spirit world by influnencing humans in bodies to be their hosts for the behaviours and activities they sought while last alive in a body. God permits this as a way to have a mind exercise machine to build the strength of our mind. Moses and Aaron may have failed that test by allowing the stoning (if it happened as was said). The main problem is that here we have Moses receiving the 10 commandments of “You should not kill” or murder (as self defense was considered permissible, though people use that now for an excuse to kill). So wouldn’t there be another way to encourage discipline. So I would not be at all surprised to someday learn that those examples were placed into the writings ascribed to Moses for some political purpose or because of a riff between Moses and another faction against him to try to smear him and his 10 commandments.

    Smears and the sewing of disinformation are common as we all can see in life and partial stories, assumptions, seeding of mis/dis information is rampant today and it always has been.

    So finding this example, does this mean that all that Moses did was subject to critisism? Well, Yes it does. We don’t need to fear the process of testing information that may broaden our view in the process, strengthening our personal connection with God as it’s true we can’t know all God’s reasons and objectivity so it does become a test of our faith and trust while it also becomes a way for critics of God to show their face. God does test us and the object is to eventually be willingly able to given our ALL to God to reap the reward God promises for all those who show that willingness.

    • john

      if its a mistake then why should the bible be taken seriously? what else are mistakes and misunderstands.

      ITS ALL BULLSHIT written by people to scare people into 1 order.

      • Stef

        Even members of the Level Above human make mistakes. When we read the “record” remember that’s what it is. It’s a compilation of related historic experiences. If General Patton made mistakes did that mean that everything he did was a mistake. But a mistake for a member from the Kingdom of God would not necessarily be a mistake from our perspective. What’s hard to consider was that this was like an Astronaut Training program and these members of Moses troop were the first applicants by their choice to stay and look to Moses as their leader. The program was to literally look to Moses as their King, who is presumably in touch with the King of Kings who was not readily seeable, except as a pillar of light, etc. Thus the reason Moses so called “mistakes” were not mistakes for us to follow because our lesson step was to “follow instructions” no matter what we thought about them. It’s like the marines. If one doesn’t wan to be in the program then don’t sign up. And if one soldier becomes untrustworthy to where the entire unit may actually have their lives jeopardized a commander would be authorized to relieve that person of their duty and in some case would be court marshalled or even killed if someone died becuse of another not following the instructions. Now Moses was also part of the weeding process. To the Kingdom of God a weed is anyone that rebels from the assigned leadership and they are like a cancer to the sucucceful outcome. The Kingdom of God is real. That’s what Ti and Do came to say and did as the return of the FAther and Jesus, who were the same whouls who were the Lord and Moses respectively.
        The garden wasn’t set up to produce fruit in humans bodies. It was set up to award us with human bodies to we could overcome/conquer their pull on our mind and allegience.

  • random 101

    Christians should not pick and choose which parts of the bible they believe in. Dont sit there and moan about gay marriage when you cant even enforce stoning someone who worked on a sabath. Christians need to wake up and smell the coffee. This book was created from many mythologies, a very good book to teach people how to live their lives. Its not the law and people should not take it so seriously. Religion has caused many millions of deaths, we would be better off without it.

  • talykin

    to Joel:
    I’m not clear what do you KNOW to be true? Are you sure you’re not confusing knowledge with faith? What you know you don’t have to believe in (like you don’t have to believe that the Earth is round) and reversely, belief implies absence of knowledge.

  • sawyerhg

    But Humans don’t have absolute knowing about anything really. Sure we can think and say that tomorrow the sun will rise and be right but in some ways that’s an educated guess. A cow can think every day will be the same too, that is until that day when they are killed for their meat which they may have little to no anticipation of. Actually the only things we really can know are the things that were given us by the Kingdom of God though their representatives, yet even these are subject to change. Any parent knows that they will adjust their rules as the child can understand and apply more. Belief is really equivilent to “faith – the evidence of things unseen” so it’s always subjective according to the person. And belief without actions/works in support of that belief is moreorless worthless. It’s easy to say, Oh, I believe this or that, but what if we were held to some significant action/deed based on our proclamation of belief? We might find our belief is quite weak. Like how many people believe they are christians yet don’t really try very hard to mimic anything Jesus actually said. Well of course he set the bar quite high, but the point is in the effort.

  • Jordan

    This is just the fodder I’ve been looking for to reference when people come to my door to proselytize me. Hooray independent thought.

  • sawyerhg

    Yes I agree that we can’t Judge the creators of this planet though some think they can albeit previous comments here…saying “god is an asshole”. That’s like a horse bucking rather than allow a human to help tame them into service. The wild horse doesn’t know that once tamed they will have something other wild horses will never experience – a relationship with a more evolved being and anyone who knows horses knows tame horses that are well kept love affection from humans and of course the treats they get. However equating humans dropping H bombs on other humans IS a BAD example as humans are far from members of the Kingdom of the Creator crews. Calling murdering all those mostly innocent humans IS evil in one form as it took away their opportunity to grow closer to God, (though God can certainly choose to save each of those souls to give them a future opportunity to grow a step closer to God, and eventually to graduation out of the human evolutionary kingdom level of life, the ultimate highest purpose a human being can serve).

    But also critisizing God for allowing the planet to recycle things is also juvinile. It’s really like this. None of us would even be living if God didnt’ set up this grandeous environment for us. No humans created ANY of the elements and/or systems that keep it all in operation. Humans are significantly primitive even with cell phones and tinker toy flying devices into a tiny distance in near space. That’s like cursing God for allowing us to die at all. Why wouldn’t a loving god create us to live forever? That is because we are in large worthless leaches and even weeds that seek to prey upon others and our environment to the degree of toxifing it all that is interfering with those that might one day grow closer to God thus like weeds in any garden NEED to be recycled, spaded under as we will see more and more upcoming. See my videos on youtube channel: “3spm” and/or on blogtalkradio.com/sawyer

  • Barry

    The Bible certainly has some things which are difficult to reconcile — not impossible, I think, but difficult.

    But because of Jesus, I beleive the Bible to be true.

    Jesus endorsed the Scriptures without reservation. His personal fulfilment of prophecy, His miracles, His morally spotless life and His resurrection all serve as proof that He is who He says He is — the divine Son of God. His endorsement of the Bible is THE swing vote. When God Himself — Jesus — says the Bible is true, I’m very inclined to believe it — despite the difficulties.

    The testimony of the Holy Spirit within the believer is also strong testimony.

    The things of Scripture which are clear and demonstrably true — especially the things of Christ — make me trust the same Scriptures for the things which are difficult to believe or difficult to grasp.

    A little girl might not understand all that her daddy tells her about life or the reasons behind what he tells her to do. Some of what he tells her might seem harsh or unloving to her little ears and heart. But one day when she is older, she learns that her daddy really did know best and he that every one of his instructions to her was because he loved her. Then she realizes it was her own limited understanding that was the problem, not her daddy’s apparent lack of love or character.

    One thing is certain. God is God and I am not. It is never appropriate for the created to sit in judgment of the Creator. When we presume to climb up into the seat of judgment and judge the Everalsting Almighty Uncreated One, we have stepped far beyond our bounds. Into the realm of the absurdly sinful. I sat there once and, by His grace, was made aware of my cosmic presumption and enabled to step down and humble myself before Him as I should.

    Pride is what made Lucifer sit in that same seat, presuming to judge God. Not exactly the company I desire to keep. You?

    “He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does God require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God” (Micah 6:8).

    There is peace and life and freedom for those who are willing to so walk. Not for those who think they know better than God Himself.

    Barry Pierce

  • Sawyer

    It’s very important now a days more than ever to try to be accurate to what we know and what we really don’t know. It is because of stating things we don’t know as facts that so many can be so easily left a non-believer. When we talk publically we have the biggest responsiblity as Jesus said the greatest sin is blasphemey against the Holy Spirit not himself. The Holy spirit is the mind of God. It’s the living information/data that Jesus represented to us by taking over a human suit of cloths to talk to us at our comprehension level and ability to run the show of what we think, say and do.

    now pertaining to what Barry said: “Jesus endorsed the Scriptures without reservation. His personal fulfilment of prophecy, His miracles, His morally spotless life and His resurrection all serve as proof that He is who He says He is — the divine Son of God. His endorsement of the Bible is THE swing vote. When God Himself — Jesus — says the Bible is true, I’m very inclined to believe it — despite the difficulties.

    The testimony of the Holy Spirit within the believer is also strong testimony.”

    One thing here that is not a “fact” is knowing exactly how he lived as a human being. I know believers fear that he could have done many of the things we do. He was certainly tempted was he not? He was certainly challenged and wished he did not have to “drink the cup” given him to drink. He also said when he was called “good” that “none are good but my Father…” He also spoke to where to put our priorities – judging others behavior or our own – teaching his viewpoint or our own? He said there were priorities – “swing at a gnat swallow a camel” – a gnat is a problem but hardly worth the effort when we then neglect the camel that we then swallow while swinging at the gnat. This pretty much sums up religions, however well meaning – they even create gnats to swing at while missing the larger issues. For instance the largest issue before the world right now seems to be the movement to make God and Jesus and Moses non-existant. That is far, far, far, far more offensive to God and Jesus as it’s blasphemy agaisnt the holy spirit (living mind of God) and worse yet “teaching humans” that as reality dispite the literal tons of evidence to the contrary – They DO EXIST and not as a myth – that’s what Lucifer wants to make THEM (God and Jesus and Moses) into.

    This also speaks to the topic here that I’ve tried to take different angles on some of which I agree with Barry about – this one isolated incident, if we take it as a seeming inconsistancy and then say, well I guess it’s ALL inconsistant, that is our choice and that’s fine as it is anyone’s option OR they can take the much harder path as it’s not the way the masses tend to go and choose to realize it’s perhaps a gnat so continue on in one’s quest to know the truth about it all.

    And the same with Jesus life – how he lived it, whether or not he ever kissed a girl or whatever. It’s all diverting ALL he said and did that was many times superiour to any of us and in many ways as clearly depicted by the non-human ways he set forth for us to emulate that included even making our thoughts single minded in service to HIM as our Father in the flesh (at that time), but more recently, and you might hate this one Ti and Do, (Jesus’ Father and Jesus (both souls that don’t have those old names anymore and didn’t before they took over the bodies they did when they had their task to do on Earth with the humans they singled out for their next lesson step).

    Lucifer has even saw to it that the name Jesus would be worked in his favor. Barry was right about how Lucifer put himself on the same level as Jesus and God and that is why it is said by many that he doesn’t exist either and why so many are running away from one distortion (religion) to an equal or worse distortion called “spirituality” where nothing exists except their praise of self and of humanity (mammon) that does have it’s value but only as a “stepping stone” for a soul to be nutured by the Kingdom of God’s reps to a hopeful graduation termed “harvest” which occurred in 1997 when the souls saved by Jesus 2000 years ago were brought back by God (not reincarnation which is where the idea came from but was also distorted for some to think it applied to all who died) to take their next and in this case final lesson step in the overall overcoming process of learning to Give our All, even so far as to “lay down our physical life (SELF sacrifice) that is ONLY authorized BY a fully present physical incarnation of a member from God’s Kingdom WHEN They have seen us demonstrate a consistant desire to give our all, that goes way beyond talk or participation in a club (religion) and will always be seen by those who are in the clubs and those who are not as insane and cultish, though they are in fact the dangerous sub-cultures because of how they glue their members to a false, sacrine idea of what is REQUIRED to become a member of God’s kingdom. It’s the hardest job a human can do and has the most rewared BUT it is not for everyone at the same time. Now we are in the stage of spreading info about Ti and Do, which is the exact same info – every jot and tittle as Jesus and Moses gave though each most appropriate to the human souls God was nurturing all along.

    I have said nothing here that is not scriptural and I challenge anyone to challenge me on that. However, I am far, far from perfect so can make mistakes and do, but I ask for help to see my mistakes as I ask for that now, so I don’t misrepresent what Ti and Do gave me from my 19 years their dedicated student, who left them but now knows why and knows that in my remaining time in this body I need to reveal the true nature and mission of Ti and Do which automatically includes the true nature and mission of Moses and Jesus as they are all the same two souls who came as the Two Witnesses. Check out my video’s if you can on youtube under the channel name: 3spm and/or my blogtalkradio.com/sawyer channel every thursday night 11-1am est.

  • Terrence

    Love the verse at the top of the page (Psalm 137:8-9). Completly taken out of context, a nice attempt at trying to steal credability from the scriptures. Read it in context that’s not God talking to the Isrealites, but the Edomites before they go to war.

  • Joann

    Dont work on the sabbath then LMAO….

  • Tony

    I have quoted this passage multiple times in my book on the new faith. I believe in God, but some passages of the bible simply put me in a place of uneasiness. There is one thing to remember here: the bible was WRITTEN BY HUMANS. Therefore, it is flawed. Every action that humans commit is DONE BY HUMANS. Therefore, it is flawed. It is that simple. Thank you for making this blog, it has helped me out a lot in finding passages I can use to prove that our generation needs to move on from this mindset of “you’re wrong, I’m right” and find a middle ground where we can simply learn to accept each others’ point of view. Anyway, as for the people who are spouting out bible passages, there is undoubtedly another passage that goes against that exact statement. The bible calls God vengeful, then ten pages later calls him merciful. Those are exact opposites. The book was written by humans. I will take it for what it is – a STORY of God and Jesus, and how people have responded to their belief. I don’t think it is a handbook on how our generation should live. God has not Smitten me yet. Because I believe that he loves me, no matter what I do. And the God I know would not tell the Israelite to stone a man because he went to collect firewood. Sorry if I offended anyone.

    • sawyer

      Abosolutely correct. The bible is a compilation written by humans. One of the biggest problems we have is seeing everything absolultely one way or the other when actually nothing is. The entire creation demonstrates flexability and tolerance and give and take, life and death, cyclic development and recycling to an amazing degree. We are provided with everything to become what we want to become even if it’s just in our mind and thus perhaps illusionary and perhaps futuristic (the real place and mindset of those people who are Above Human (the way a human is above animal and an animal is above plant and a plant is above mineral)).

      However, with that said, there is a mindset that we can’t understand much about the Kingdom of God and again that’s an absolute when the evidence is that over time humans have the opportunity to understand more and more and Jesus said that he explained some of the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven to his disciples but to others he spoke in parables but that upon his return he would no longer speak in parables but would talk plainly of/with/about the Father since much about the Kingdom of God from Jesus perspective and admission was about looking to his Father, the one who parented him into his membership in the Above Human Kingdom, when he was at first a seed of soul in some human or equivilent environment.

      And since we are taught in a progression, we can’t take the old laws and treat them the same as when they were given because for one, we don’t know the exact circumstances, we don’t know if a ramification to breaking a rule was carried out, we don’t often know the correct most accurate interpretation of terms, as stoned also meant to rebuke someone though I’m not saying such a ramification didn’t exist and why.

      What we do know is that from the Kingdom of God’s perspective a physical body is not nearly as valuble as the soul that is a real container that houses “holy mind/spirit” that is given by doing our best to adhere to the rules given by the Kingdom of God representative at any given time, i.e. Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus and some including me believe Do of Ti and Do, Father and Son returned as the Two Witnesses of REv 11, 12 where the Father came as a woman (Ti). See my blogs and 3spm youtube channel for lots of info on this.

      For instance Jesus said that in some cases Moses did things because of “your hardness of hearts”. And one of the problems the religious of Jesus day had with him was he didn’t follow the letter of the Mosaic laws thus he forgave the prostitue caught in the act that clearly by Mosaic law should have been punished, perhaps by stoning to death.

      So for us what are the laws to follow, Moses or Jesus. Well, Jesus also said to follow the 10 commandments and spoke to many other Mosaic rules so it seems most prudent to follow only what Jesus said and by the way, Paul next to never quoted Jesus so I’d be very wary of using anything Paul said to justify any behavior UNLESS we can find a corresponding Jesus quoted example of the same idea, in which case Paul would have received it from one of the real apostles who Jesus appointed by their being with him having left all behind, denying their own future/self and taking up the same cross he was to later bear, which meant being hated even to death for the same reasons.

      The reason why some Christians insist that the total bible was inspired by God is because it was. The entire Earth was inspired to exist by God and in particular the experiences that were recorded were also though there are many reasons to distrust certain aspects but that is because of human translations and misunderstandings, many times the result of Luciferian influence over writers/interpreters to choose words (as there are often many choices when moving from Aramaic/Hebrew and/or Greek/Latin to English or other languages and they often choose those words they deem most consistant with other passages but if they don’t understand the context of the passage and the intention of God in any case then they can easily base their conclusions on inaccurate starting points and this pertains to virtually every word and as it is they add words and some were not able to be deciphered, so it’s a miricle of God that we have as much in tact as we do. But that is because God wants us to have a level playing field so to speak. So God is also from an unseen perspective assisting the writers/translators to be sure what They want to be perserved and counted upon IS and from my vast study of parts of the Bible, the red letters of what Jesus said is trustable nearly 100%. I say nearly becasue even still there were choices made in translations that slant in a direction I believe is less than most accurate. Often all translations can be declared accurate but what happens is that on passages we have a hard time with, we tend to want to translate them as figurative when in fact they were said in a literal application. For instance the passage about Eunuchs and the passage of a rich man not being able to enter the kingdom of God any more than a camel could go though the eye of a needle. It was a sewing needle thus it is impossible in that context and there was a reason for Jesus to say that that can be explained with other passages, because wealth aka Mammon becomes what we rely on instead of looking more and more only to the Kingdom of God for all our needs/wants. We may be wealthy and go to church or temple or any place of so called worship (none of which are performing service necessarily just by being there and participating as worship is really better interpreted as “working for”. It’s whether or not we ask the KIngdom fo God to be in their service and then when we perform that service we are worshipping.

      Finally and pertaining to this passage in which Tony is referring: The Moses part of the Kingdom of God Gardening experiment that has the objective of growing souls to fruitian as a harvest requires both a flesh experience (birth) and from that a soul/spirit birth to complete, the reason we need to have a living body. It is by learning to take control over our flesh under the tutoring of a genuine member from the Kingdom of God that our soul accumulates new wine(Holy Mind) into our new wineskin (soul=container that only holds Holy Mind). Holy Mind is that which is from the Kingdom of God. It consists of information that for us teaches us about the behavior of a member of the Kingdom of God vs human mind that is mroe animalistic and thus self based whereas kingdom of God Mind is service to the Kingdom selfless based.

      The Kingdom of God creates the soul containers that they give as a gift to those who ask directly or indirectly for one. It’s the example of a seed that Jesus gave. And the Kingdom of God also creates the gnome that can be a potential match for a particular soul. In other words they are basically evolving both mind and body to their desired result of harvesting fruit which is in the form of new membership in their kingdom as they don’t reproduce as mammals do. Now they don’t need to do this. But this is the way they designed the human kingdom and all the kingdom’s before it in the evolutionary ladder that has little to nothing to do with Darwinism. The designed the human kingdom to be a stepping stone between animal and the Kingdom Above Human where they live and maintain their environment, that is not nearly as limited as in the human kingdom, just like human is not nearly as limited as animals.

      When they give any of their gnome creation a seed as with Adam receiving the breath of life from God thru his nostrils, that “information” as represented but actually akin to a digital transmission, for lack of a better way to describe it, because I don’t know exactly it’s format, but that information that is also a kin to being a program, even a series of programs, one of which provides an address and with it a KNOWING that the Kingdom of God exists and that we can communicate with it’s membership, through whatever crew is monitoring human’s who seek to communicate, …that information is passed on via the human seed of the male to their offspring thus a strain of human vehicles are developed that are grown to provide for future soul seed implants that can be grown to eventual harvest after at least 3 trimesters of growth opportunities when a representative from the Kingdom of God and their crew (seen at times or not) takes over a human vehicle that is also of that same primed genetic stock.

      Each time the rep comes and goes that gnome they have worked with physically gains more real perspective of the reality of the Kingdom of God because they draw more of that members from that Kingdom’s “holy” mind/spirit and that pass that on to their genetic offspring along with their behaviors pro or con to that info.

      When Moses took those Israeli’s out of Egyptian pharoahs hands one of the first things that happened was their arrival at Mt. Sinai where Moses got the basic laws to give and God spoke to the people saying, in return for my taking you out of the Egyptian hands here are the laws I expect you to abide in. This was God cultivating their crop by giving them taming of animal ways. For animals killing is not such a big deal but to the stock the Kingdom of God had plans for it was a very big deal as the vehicle is essential to be a match for the evolving mind given with each new incarnation by that member of the kingdom of God.

      So God gave them a choice and they seemed to accept it. As I recall, there were no fences. Anyone could have just headed back to the Egyptians but they stayed on and wow did some seek to cause trouble for moses which is like haveing a weed in the patch. A weed can infect good viable plants and kill it thus when weedy behavior was growing out of control, God had to set up a circumstance to where the weeds would identify themselves and then they could be cut back. A law of no work on the sabbath was just such a law but it wasn’t just to stimulate those who were rebellious to the laws as God didn’t want humans to always be working for their needs every day as pretty soon if that’s allowed there will be no time when humans are not working for themselves and the object is to help them grow to recognize the reality of God’s kingdom that they derived their life from in the first place and give God their time.

      We see now why this was important as there are million, even religious that hardly ever give or offer their services to God ahead of working for their families or their mini empires.

      Thus if someone did pick up sticks on the sabbath the Lord may very well have instructed Moses to recycle that vehicle so to be an example for the seeds that wanted to cooperate and to get rid of that influence. After all, God created them all so doesn’t god have the option to get rid of them when he sees fit. Now that was then and Moses was with them as a direct rep from the kingdom of God. For humans to take it upon themselves to think they can play God and take another’s life is still a big breakign of God’s laws and they will all be punished for doing so and that punishment is that they will not ever see the next representative from the kingdom of God because they don’t have their MIND in them to make the interface.

      If you have the interface mind then you will have to investigate who I say Ti and Do are. They were the founders of the Heaven’s gate group who layed down their lives in 1997. That was the Rev 14 first harvest and you can be in the second harvest if you can start a relationship with Ti and Do who provided me with the understanding I have of scripture and lots more by gifting me with some of their mind in the 19 years I was their student as they are no longer in physical bodies but can hear those who call their names.

  • Quintapus

    I just have two questions. Did the people Stone the man to death on the Sabbath? If so, who stoned them to death for “working” on the Sabbath?

  • sawyer

    @rhett, Yes, the whole enchilada came from the same place, the creators of this globe and x trillions of others before this one, all with life forms who even get so full of themselves with what they don’t know anything about that they can’t even recognize that they don’t know where it all came from and that it had to be intelligently orchestrated just like it’s common sense that a computer had to be intelligently orchestrated. Now terms all become bastardized over time but all the religions originated from/in response to when the Evolutionary Level Above Human instigated a new phase in the tending of the garden of soul seeds they plant periodically. It takes millenium to grow a soul into fruit. And by the way, Moses was not at all happy with the way he felt forced to manage that massive group. Plus there has been an effort to discredit and distort what he did just like there always is. Look at christians today. They don’t resemble in the slightest way much if anything Jesus actually taught yet they say Jesus this and Jesus that and assume He lives to take care of them. Of course there are exceptions but mostly those leave all the Christian organizations, though they dont’ necessarily find something better as many of the New agers love to quote Jesus, but only a couple of things he said. No one goes near the myrid of difficult to swallow scriptures or they morpf them into something figurative when it was clearly meant literal, but one has to dig into the greek and hebrew/aramaic to see it best and most look to others to do that so they can just be a good little follower. By the way, for the record, Ti and Do came and left. They were the two witnesses in rev 11, the white horse in rev 6, the woman and male son in rev 12, the song of rev 14, the fulfillment of all prophecy of the next coming of the son of man and the FAther and kingdom of God crew and I can prove it but few are willing to take a look see. But if you do I suggest heavensgate(dot)com and youtube(dot).com/user/3spm and sawyerhg(dot)wordpress(dot)com for starters.

    • rhett

      Ohh, you’re a Hale-Bopp guy. I thought you all committed suicide last time the comit passed (I lived only about 30 miles away). I didn’t know your cult still existed.

      So I checked out some of your stuff. I must have been well programed by the bad aliens because I don’t believe a word of what was said.

      Jesus, a man possessed by an alien? Really? Where do you get this stuff? Ooh, I know. Two hippis made it up in the ’70.

      Would you do me a favor and stop posting on sites discussing Biblical topic since you obviously don’t see the Bible as the Word of God. All you serve to do is muddy the water. I’m sure there are areas where it is appropriate for you to aire your beliefs, but don’t come in looking like a Christian and start getting off on wild beliefs.

  • Armada Volya

    Someone just commented on my youtube video stating that stoning someone to death was a way to unite people. That people needed to unite against someone who had unjust advantage over others. I really hope the person was joking, because the thought is rather disturbing.

  • wyer

    Rhett – Yes, you could say I’m one of those “hale bopp” guys. I was with Ti and Do for 19 years but they knew I needed more experience before I was ready to give my all. I thought I was ready to give my all, but as it turned out I was thinking like a martyr all that time, in that giving my life made me into something special, like a hero or something, when the way the Older Members are willing to allow us to “give our lives” is if we have proved to them, that we wanted to do it for Them, for the Evolutionary Level Above Human, regardless of the promised rewards. Now one could say, They are on a power trip to want us to prove to them we are worthy but that’s a human way of looking at it and naturally so as we are all humans, though humans whom have been the recipients of various degrees of Level Above Human thinking/programming …like “humans should not kill other humans” or what have been termed the 10 commandments.

    You see, they, the members of the Next Level don’t need new members or anything humans can make or do. They don’t need any of it at all. In fact, there is nothign a human can offer them that they want. However, because the human kingdom level was designed to be outgrown, thus be like a footstool to the Next Level, they manage the human kingdom and spoon feed segments of the population at various times the reality of who they are and where they are from and what the requirements are to be on their team. To Them, all who don’t respond to their program in some way that only they can determine, are weeds in their “garden” thus need to be erradicated periodically to allow for the fruit they plant to have a chance to grow to fruitian.

    So yes, The Kingdom of God kills and kills by the millions and billions and of course the weeds would disaggree that they are weeds. A weed is moreorless a plant that will devour everythuing in it’s site, strangle all other plants. Many plants don’t do that. Many planets simply operate in community though at times are in competition for resources, but also easily share by the design of the environment while those that can’t die off.

    In fact the design was for all to die off, so I guess if one wants to curse God for killing then they should curse God for giving them the opportunity to live, because then it will be taken away largely against their will.

    But if humans were allowed to live much longer or indefinitely then that would be like giving licence for weeds to destory everything around themselves while They know that a lifeform must grown to thirst to be of service to that which they learn to recognize is way above them as then they can become a member of their crew without thinking they can do everything better or fool around with life as humans do so well now and justify doing so…national security, for water, for geographic strategy, to keep others subservient, to gain another’s resources, to dominate, blah, blah, blah as we see out of control to date.

    The reason it’s all so out of control now is because Ti and Do and crew left. The reason the US became a melting pot and had more rights (though they all had to be fought for) was to provide an enviornment for the crew in training. Now that they are gone physically, a little time is offerred for some to wake up to their reality and recognize that Ti and Do were beyond space aliens even and were from the creator crew of living beings who were above human. And meanwhile the earth and the beings on it are pressing one another to the points of life and death which will provide with the environmental changes and the space alien revelations with the govn’t coverups, etc. so that people can decide. It’s believe in Ti and Do or not. This is because Ti and Do’s crew simply want to know which genetic stock and implants are still alive – seeking to live, so they can save them when they lose their physical body and can use some of that genetic stock for the next planting of the new civiliztion that will begin after the rest of the planet and all the weeds have been recycled.

    So all this judgement of the Next Level and Moses because of very stringent rules some 4000 years ago are like a weed complaining that there are rules to abide by if they want to produce fruit the gardener can actually make good use of. Any who are rebels to this have been strongly influenced by the luciferians parrellel propogation/interference in the genetic code and thus are weeds. Those weeds are allowed for a time to provide like a sparring partner to the fruit in the making.

    To discount the Level Above Human on the grounds that we’ve become civilized by the Kingdom of God so don’t agree with the way the Next Level though it’s reps (enoch & Lord, moses and Lord, elijah and Lord, jesus and Lord termed “father” to bring home his as a new family) finally Ti and Do) handled renegades is a choice but an ill informed one.

    Human physical bodies are easy for the Nexxt Level to have multiply. Whenever the Level Above Human was talking about LIfe they were referring to a life of their Soul body.The human vehicles is a needed stepping stool to that Kingdom Above Human.

  • wyer

    Lastly for a while or until someone says something about what I’ve just added, the Luciferians have to date taken over the human kingdom rendering it almost impossible to produce fruit, thus the recycling of even the Luciferians needs to take place and will. The Luciferians want humans to either believe in nothing above human, as an atheist or a new age spiritualist that thinks all things are God and thus they are god, thus again not believing in physical beings that are above mammalian, or thinking that space aliens are above human though the hundreds of reports suggest they have the same needs and wants as humans and have physical bodies that decay and die against their will or the Luciferians want us to think having allegience to a religious teaching and certain techniques of prayer or meditation and/or the combonation of technologies will solve our human or environmentaly problems or just believe they are in God’s good stead if they simply quote things said in the past and live according to some of the rules while many others take a back seat, even the weightier required saying to keep to prove to the Kingdom of God one wants to be in their service and are willing to change. The luciferians create facsimili’s of the Next Level’s agenda thus the jim jones “look nothing alike really” mass suicide. They would have you think anyone who lays down their life, must be crazy or a fanactic, though a hero if it’s for other humans but if we think those other humans are representatives from the Kigndom of God, then we are crazy as that can happen in the past as recorded in manuscripts saved and made into the bible, but when it comes to the return, it’s got to be some supernatural representation.

    But the seed who are not satisfied with a condemnation of Ti and Do who by the way fulfilled are are still fulfilling ALL prophecies from Jesus and the prophets and Moses, may still be able to call upon the names Ti and Do to ask them questions to better help them recognize who they really are. If you are willing to at least do that or to at the very least call out to the Heavenly Father who is beyond the earth’s atmosphere and as far away as one can imagine. I am simply giving the fastest tracks to the source of it all. However, if you want to call on the name Jesus in your private prayers as it was never meant to be the public thing it’s become, then it depends on what you ask for, whether or not the real member from the Kingdom of God will choose to answer you in some way.

    I guarantee the genuine members of the Next Level – Kingdom of God will not tell you to do something unless you ask them what to do and even then will give you options in the way they answer. For instance I recently asked Do if I should prepare myself to lay down my body as my fellow students did in 1997. Do came to me in a dream immedieatlly afterwards and told me I had to “give your life” which is the formula Moses and Jesus agreed was the most important commandment, though during moses time the humans were hardly ready to receive that though the Next Level made sure Moses said it to them.

    So there is no value to committing suicide, in case anyone thinks I’m promoting doing so. In fact we all need to hold onto our vehicles for as long as we can so we can learn to build strength against all the influences that will be coming upon us as the last day comes to a close. This place will get very, very scrary and it seems it will begin when the “green” horse (human vehicle) takes the helm of the US.

    There is a great deal to say to all of this so I suggest absorbing all you can from heavensgate.com and from my youtube channel: 3spm and blog on sawyerhg.wordpress.com not that it offers me anything as I don’t work for any of you all. I work for Do. I don’t want nor need believers in what I say or do. I’m not anyones teacher in that way. I can only teach from the experience I gained from Ti and Do who would then become your teachers as well as they will let you know they are aware of your desires and efforts if you put some out in that direction. There is no new cult starting up as it’s completly unneccessary and there is no club to join though there are some that are startign such things, though I don’t agree with their doing so. Yet it’s free will. This is of course not meant for everyone to embace and not at the same time even. Take this knowledge I’m providing, though I’m a lousy writer and let it simply exist in your head and watch world events. Ti and Do and crew are returning one more time but this last time “as they are” which may include looking to us as they looked in the human vehicles they droppped. Wont’ that be a freight seeing Do’s face through a telescope perhaps or with the naked eye or in one ones minds eye and not be able to get it out of their head. It would be like torture for those that deem Do evil as so many do while he is the direct opposite and I can prove it by 19 years of examples from beign with him and Ti all that time. He qualifys as the return of the same souls from the Kingdom of God 100% and that 100% keeps on growing as I see more evidences.

    This information from Ti and Do needs to be spread far and wide. This is our task assignment for new believers and old believers alike. Though I have a certain elder nature because of my experience anyone can with effort pass me up (that is if I slack off on my full tilt growth). I just say this because the Next Level doesn’t hold anyone back. Theorectically you could pass up the one you call Jesus. That’s theorectical only as the one called Jesus who then was called Do last, is growign as fast as he can in continued service to his Older Member Ti, the rev. 12 woman who is admiral over 12 star systems and is giving birth to Do’s first star system fatherhood.

    Obama is the black horse and the bush and republicans were the red horse of rev 6. Thus the pale or pale green hourse is left and that one will be reprenting the recydlign of all the weeds.

    Time is short. It will all be finished by the end of the generation this started with in the 1970’s.

  • TG

    There is no mockery in these verses (Numbers15:32-36) of the scripture at all. Remember, all scripture point to our Lord Jesus Christ. Once again, our attention is being drawn to the mercy Christ worked for us on the Cross. Just imagine how many of us would have been dead or maimed if Christ had not paid the Supreme Price on the Cross to set us free from The Law, including the Law of Sabbath. We are called to rejoice in the Death, glorious resurrection and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  • Lynn

    Let us set aside all thoughts and really read what it is projecting. Consider these things:

    (based on the translation of the Stone edition of the Tanach)
    Numbers 15
    15:1 thru 16 is giving the libations.
    15:17 thru 21 it reads of the Challah
    15:22 thru 26 reads of the atonement for public unitentional idol worship
    15:27 thru 29 reads of the individual idol worship
    15:30 thru 31 reads of the intentional idolatry
    15:32 thru 34 reads of a “Sabbath desecration in the wilderness”
    Now do not misundersand me, I am seeking truth in this verse, I am not writing I am correct. But for thought let us consider some things that are documented for us.
    We know that all the instruction from God first starts off with “Speak to the children of Israel……..for when you will come to the land (which was 39 years later?)……15:14 reads: When a prosellyte sojourns with you or one who is among you throughout your generations……now in 15:32 the “children of Israel were in the wilderness” (they finally arrived?) now it reads “they found a man” …….can we base on this that this man was not an Isralite? he was not unintentionally sinning (or he would not have been put to death), that he was not an individual idol worshiper (he was not just cut off, he was stoned to death) he was not a high-handed, blasphemeing intentional idolator (or he would be cut off, he was stoned to death)

    NO? Now out of the “blue” we have the only recorded story of man found by the Israelites gathering wood on the Sabbath.

    These translations are in our native language “english”. In an unrevised dictionary by Webster (who based the definitions on the scriptures) look up some of the words like…..found…..gathering…..wood…..custody or ward….clarified…..

    How many times in the Word has someone been stoned, or was going to be stoned?
    If you are serious to understand (I sure am) then can we put our energy together and ask to know the truth.
    The end of the chapter references the Tzitzis and all the commandments.

    Why, why, why was this story of a man gathering wood so important? there is a truth for us to know, want to work together and maybe just maybe, a fine group of people can make an awesome discovery to better each of our understanding.
    I am excited to know if any of you are willing

    • Stef

      hi lynn, if you really are a seeker of the truth, then you are wasting you time on trying to justify this passage to please those who love to use it as an example of how the creators, in their mind are not what those who believe in Them say they are.

      If one could put themselves in the creator’s position, one would find that They are quite justified to do whatever tehy want to any of us at any time if it suits their needs and they can do so with human hands no matter how barbaric it seems to us.

      The truth is WE are all so barbaric it’s ridiculous. Do you know how many people have been murdered by all sorts of ways at all different times in history based on “belief” or bias, or profit or fear or hatreds in competitions and jealousies, etc. And just because most of us living now havnt’ participated directly in such behaviors doesn’t mean we would not given the right circumstances. After all if we pay taxes to a nation that kills innocents with any justification then we are supporing the breaking of the law Jehovah gave that Jesus supported. Now I admit that’s a bit of an extreme as jesus said to pay taxes to those who created the money system that we use, but why…not to show allegience with them but to not be interferred with by them, but that would mean we are doing something for the HIM, something he said to do, as opposed to what the religionists say we should be doing.

      The atheists are correct in many respects because the god many of the religionists believe in, is a construct – a mixture of the one true kingdom of God, though the record of it’s incarnate representatives…and workers and what the luciferians (who are comprised of real people whose ancestry carry on their affairs, though whom have little consciousness as to their origin and why it’s that way) have distorted the creator’s kingdom and record to be/mean.

      If someone in that moses camp was stoned to death for collecting wood on the sabbath with moses approval as it states then even if moses considered himself to having made a mistake to preside over the decision, if it was based on jehovah’s instruction then so be it. If we examine how moses presided over many being slain by the sword in their camp when they decided to stay in the camp but not support moses, after the mt. sinai receipt of the rules that included not working for self or others on the sabbath.

      This was the stage of cultivating the “blade” of the plant human. They were breeding out the rebelliousness that the Luciferians instilled so that those physical bodies could serve for the next two birth trimesters.

      Jesus updated those rules because then they were working on the the 2nd trimester for the souls approaching birth where the “ear”(head) of the corn/wheat plant is being cultivated, that’s where our thinking is equally important with out actions on behalf or against the kingdom of god.

      what’s important now is to be willing to take a look at the current return of the kingdom of god, as the two witnesses (rev 11), who are father and son returned, which the father took a female vehicle (rev 12). I have dozens of very clear scriptural proves that these two alrealdy came and went and were labeled the most dangerous cult in america, the heaven’s gate so called suicide cult. It was not suicide by the way. The human physical vehicle does eventually need to be sacrificed FOR GOD. Jesus says it all over the place and this thinking that is today obserd to believe (as is any idea of the kingdom of god being real). This is NOT condoning suicide. We all die physially. It’s really WHO we are willing to die for, in who’s service, the real Lord or the fake Mammon (mammalian/human) self described lords.

      this is your chance to look into Ti and Do who I have undeniable proof were the two witnesses and soon this will be revealed without a doubt in the second phase of their return. The first phase was as a thief, the reason most don’t know about it, though it was globally broadcast all over the news in 1975 and 1997 and 2009 (by national geographics channel, where you can see me suggesting that ti and do were the second coming.

  • Achsah

    The Bible does not contradict the nature of God. One man clearly disobeyed God and served the punishment that was clearly stated before-hand. Over and over again, we see in the Holy Bible that God is indeed a Holy God. And no one will make a mock out of Him. God always stays true to His Word; He is a constant God. God says that the wages of sin is death, so expect nothing else unless a man repents through Jesus Christ. In the garden of Eden, the simple act of eating the wrong fruit resulted in the fall of not only Adam and Eve but the rest of humanity! This is so vital at showing us the Holiness of the One who made life.
    God is the source of all life and only He has the power to take it away. It is wrong for humans to commit a murder because we do not have that power to give life. God can command to take a life because only He can give it back (He has that authority). God is NOT man. His ways and thoughts, and power are far above ours.

    • Sawyer Heavensgate

      I agree with you. I wonder however, who are those among Christians that will step up to the plate to not repeat history in rejecting an in-carnal (flesh) representative from the Kingdom of God from the literal heavens. It is always far easier to look back and see the evidence of God’s choices and power as through Moses and the prophets and most of all relative to now through Jesus. For people Christians or Atheists to make all their cases based on the Old Testement is like looking to the time when the Souls God was working with were at best toddlers in the spiritual sense, which is in terms of their abilty to recognize and distinguish between the things that come from God verses the things that come from the Luciferians, serpents, dragons, devils, satans, etc. The way in which God decided who was in their “overcoming program” and who was not has always been the same. Those had to live by the rules God laid out through His sent representative and the rules always have a type of update to them, that require more because after all this is about Souls being given the tools to climb out of the fall of adam and eve, to becoming Souls that could be trusted by God to serve God in ONLY the ways God asks them to serve whether that is to not eat off a certain tree or to not kill another human being or to not commit to marriage and then go back on that committment for reasons of wanting sex with another out of that committment (marriage), wanting to instill in us the same lesson to live by the rules. This is why by the harvest times (rev 14) those who are found worthy, the Souls, having stood up again (re-surrected) CHANGE ONES MIND (repent) as upon Jesus and his Father’s return They as usual always have NEW things to say, NEW upgrades to the same consistant lesson requirements for those souls keeping up with all the qualifications to adhere to and those things will challenge everyone to NOT see them as heretics because they talk with new terminology that has since the last representatives been twisted and turned and confused (babylon meaning) as that change will mean “recovering their virginity” (rev 14). It’s so important to recognize how what Jesus taught got very twisted into a country club organization that no longer teaches any of the core teachings (commandments, behaviors and ways) that Jesus upgraded from Moses commandments). Why don’t hardly any chritians quote all those things he said and commanded to show him we want to be his disciple? Just telling people that Jesus died for those souls who he was teaching and any who believed in him after his physical departure from among humans, is only a first step and if we deny his returned instructions we will be denying him all over again. Thus “through” Jesus means through adhering to all he taught and said we must keep his sayings. The reason this isn’t being done is because the Luciferians saw to it that his words were diluted which God allows as it provides the choice and a mark to shoot for.

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  • Ron Rhea

    God did not have a man stoned to death for gathering wood. He had him stoned to death for the reason that he was gathering it, either to burn a sacrifice to another God or to carve an idol. How do I know? Because I know God.

    • Stephen Dote

      For whatever reason it was God’s reason and not ours to judge if we know God as you said. But it certainly could have been as said because he gathered wood “on the Sabbath day” that God wanted to be a day that we give only to him our time and energy, which was preparation to give our all someday as Jesus stated and Moses also stated was the greatest commandment. After all the commandment those Israeli’s agreed to – the covenant were what was written on the stone tablets that included “keeping the Sabbath holy”. If God permitted him to disobey what he agreed to live by then the purpose of the commandments falls apart as others would see nothing happened when he broke the law and would be open to further thoughts from the evil one of going his own way instead of God’s way. He could have left the group at anytime. They had no fences but if he was going to stay then he needed to abide by the rules. Following God’s instructions is crucial to growing in our relationship to God. Adam and Eve broke the rules and had to pay the price, though I believe Adam recovered from and then “walked with God” and was taken (with his physical body) by God in his 7th generation documented as Enoch. I know that’s challenging to consider but I can bring some evidence to that process of God bringing back those he wants to have future opportunities to learn their lessons. It’s not reincarnation as the eastern religions teach. It’s part of the definition of resurrection – “to stand up again” and “being born again of water” as Jesus said to his disciples which is born again in flesh in order to be born of spirit.

      So following instructions/commandments was the primary lesson step the Israelis’ had to learn IF they wanted to stay in God’s good graces. Of course many of them did not and sought to rebel against Moses and the Lord wiped them out many times.

      People don’t hardly realize that it’s the soul that God is helping us grow but that the instrument of that growth is the human body that has it’s animal instincts that are not God’s Kingdom’s instincts so need to be overcome/conquered to please God and be with him someday in his kingdom with others that have overcome their human world.

      Those who resent God for this event are free to do so but then they will never know God unless they “change their mind” (repent). For Christians the lesson steps with Moses are like lessons for toddlers that Jesus came to update with new lesson steps.

      The Two Witnesses in Revelations are the forecast of Jesus kingdom’s return that I can bring a great deal of scriptural proof are in the flesh again and are the Father and Jesus, something I don’t see any Christian teachers saying is even possible. If you want to see my proof of that I will provide it but there is a great deal more that I have become aware of that is met by most Christian leaders with disdain and disbelieve and even calls of being heretical. But that is nothing new.

      • Mark Henderson

        Please. Stop the Christian bs. You people are just “Christian” because that’s the religion you were brought up in and indoctrinated(brainwashed) into. If you were born elsewhere, like Iran or India, etc, etc. You would be that religion.

      • sawyer

        so what – if someone was born in india sure they might have grown up with the traditions, behaviors and ways of that country. We are all in that circumstance. isn’t everyone in some type of “belief system”? Let’s say it’s molecular science – the study of things we once didn’t know existed but now can see with the aid of technologies. How can anyone with a mind to learning about things they don’t know act like there is nothing new to learn and to even be open to ways we see historic records from all nations over many thousands of years even extended before the current civilization began to flourish, as degrees of evidence of things unseen that are very much real – aka spirits and thought forms and Souls and technologies of anti gravity and to see more of what exists like with infrared and other parts of the light spectrum and to see more with better telescopes, even put into space like hubble, etc. It’s those that say what’s not possible who are the most limited minds. Sure the religions are all distorted. That’s plain to see. For example Chrisitans by in large don’t even necessarily know that they are at times not aware of things Jesus taught because they have ruled out taking him literally and have made figurative things he can be shown in context to have meant to be literal. Or thinking the forecasts in the book of revelation are interpretable by using more symbolism when they can also be seen has having a very literal application, that is if one knows how to follow that thread. I and many others and potentially all of us were given the keys to seeing their literal interpretation because what was mysterious was recently revealed in great detail by the teachings of those called TI and DO who weren’t religious at all BUT were the most accurate manifestation of the truth in our modern society. That’s hard to see but then our eyes and Mind can learn to see more but not if we are busy saying what is not as that’s like putting blinders on our Minds eye when our minds eye can become like a better telescope.

  • Mark Henderson

    Nice bible verse. So much for a loving Christian god. Actually, if you ignorant Christians stopped and read your mythical bible, maybe you would know better

    • sawyer

      Looking down on christians despite all their and other people faults doesn’t elevate us but may do just the opposite.. Who said God was loving in the way mammals sometimes translate as loving? What if they actually see us as potential crew members on their physical spacecrafts to help them tend the planet and lifeforms they scientifically engineered to be a school and the task to graduate is to outgrow human mammalian behaviors and ways, thus since they don’t need to reproduce because they know how to grow physical bodies that are imperishable, they have no need for plumbing to reproduce and sex as an entertainment form is to them a silly waste of time and energy and keeps one addicted to their mammal ways they have outgrown. So the earth then was designed to be a training ground and humans do have to learn to adopt their behaviors and ways, the Members of what is really The Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, in the records the Kingdom of God(s0 (Deities – each Member of the Next Level is compared to a human, which is as biological and mentally equip Above Human as is the comparison of a human to an animal.

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